femkes_follies: (Default)
To a brand new E-list.

SCA Dutch Culture

I've got it set as being fairly heavily moderated for the moment, as spam killed the SCA Low Countries list. Which means for the moment, I have to approve memberships, AND first messages. They you can do whatever y'all want. ;-)

Feel free to cross-post about as you think there might be interest.

I think it may make for a nice resource and storage site for information for those of us who do more than just costume, too. Make use of the Files and Photos segments, by all means.

Brief Poll

Jun. 24th, 2009 04:50 pm
femkes_follies: (Default)
Since the SCA-Low Countries list got killed by spam, would anybody be interested in an SCA-Dutch Culture E-list?
femkes_follies: (wedding)
I have word from the hubby that my new package from my Secret Pal has arrived, and I will open/photo/post tonight!

I got an E-mail today from Master Mordak that he has ordered the parchment and is having it shipped to me. I'm a little frightened of working a piece on a $180 slab'o'goatskin, but I should manage OK. I'm quite delighted that he went with the Chinese Red, since I think it will set off the Russian color palette so beautifully. Now I really must sketch my layout and design. I'm going to hold off on final dimensions until I have the chance to mock up the text and see how much room it REALLY will take. Then adjust upwards a bit to account for the slight furriness of the parchment and the tendency of metallic inks to feather ever so slightly. But at least it will get my rump in gear. And, having tackled that, I should be ready to finish Alaina's Court Barony scroll. I have some theories on Chrysography that I intend to work out and then use for THAT piece.

On to the new costuming obsession. A little art-history research has led me to the conclusion that southern parts of the Netherlands (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, etc) tended more toward Flemish fashions, whilst northern regions (Leiden, Utrect, etc) stuck with a style I'll call more specifically "Dutch." This is a stereotypical example, though I wish I had a larger image:

Whilst this page "contrasting" a Dutch woman with a Flemish peasant has the woman in what we would consider "Flemish" garb - but for the cloak/headpiece:
I'd REALLY like to have more leaves from this book to look at. I do have one other, but no text to go with it, and it's not close enough to read:

This "Dutch" kitchen scene is from one of the artists who, while Dutch, joined the Flemish school of painting. Though I notice dark aprons in this scene I've not seen in typical market scenes from Flemish painters. Still, wish I'd had it at Golden Seamstress when we got knocked for the black apron with the red gown.

I've also come to the conclusion that there is a more general "german" gown that crossed regional barriers for the lower classes:

I do also wish I could find one of Durer's works that is off a lady in the Dutch gowns with the level of detail on this one from Nurnberg. This seems to be an earlier gown than the iconic Nurnberg gown with the dark velvet facings and fancy brustfleck that we see later.
And in Color:

What I've come to think of as the more typical Nurnberg gown, with an interesting skirt treatment:

Despite the title, I can't tell if this is really a "Lady" or in fact a kampfrau. The front of her gown, which is obviously decorative and not intended to close, is interesting.

I'm also starting to suspect that any nobility in the Netherlands wore prevailing Court fashion - probably heavily influenced by the Spanish in the South and the English in the North.

Short General Non-costuming related Rant )
femkes_follies: (Default)
My morning was sort of nutty, but the afternoon is quiet. Other than dog right now that may be looking for a place to die. Why do I only get clients from the clinic down the road when they're looking for a place to die? Therefore I am back to researching.

Project number one: Establishing what constitutes "dutch" style as opposed to the more generic "Flemish Peasant" style that is ubiquitous and I'm a little tired of even though I've never made one. Maybe later. I want to try something more original. But pinning down a style isn't that easy.

Musings under a cut 'cause they got LONG )
femkes_follies: (Default)
So, I got a new summer romper done for the Muffin to wear to events. Check one item off the list.

Now on to Darling and I. I've got fabric and a toile to do his new cote with a GA style sleeve. So I just have to buckle down and do it. Coordinating hosen just need a hem along the top edge. Yeah, me.

I don't know what I'm going to do for me, since my 14th century chemise finally disintegrated last weekend. And I keep getting distracted. I want something new. I want something Germanic. So I am going to take a leaf out of Wilemyne's book (A very small leaf, since I'm not in her league) and post a bunch of interesting links.

I'm thinking Dutch, mid century. I have 4 yds of blue wool, 1 yd of chinese red wool, and 5 yards of a wool/rayon of a somewhat different red. White linen is easy to come by.

Chemise will be linen, smocked. Especially now that I've got the construction worked out so that they lay so nice. Got all the kinks worked out, and I think Antonia's chemise from Golden Seamstress was the goal. Yippee!

Beyond that, I'm not sure. I want an obnoxious decorated petticoat. I'm thinking green with black velveteen guards that are embroidered with couched silver and some colored thread embroidery. I'm intending to split the front of the gown. I might tie on sleeves. Slashed sleeves?

The inspiration list:

Decorated petticoat:

I should also mention that "Textiler Hausrat, Kleidung und Haustextilien von Nurnberg 1500-1650" mentions a variety of decorated petticoats and sumptuary laws against same. I won't quote it here because that's not fair to the wonderful woman who put the effort into translating.

I like this one, but I've come to the conclusion that this is by a follower of van Leyden, rather than van Leyden - and much later in date. I don't think it can be trusted any more than modern romance novels with "victorian" women on the cover.
See more discussion and the original BY van Leyden, here:
Wish I had a color image of this one:

Here is another van Leyden, that we based my red gown on:

I'd really like something a LITTLE different this time.

Here is another from the circle of van Leyden, with a blue/red color combo I could work with:

Another, with wider, fur-lined sleeves on the overgown:

I could SWEAR I had an engraving that showed the underarm with a diamond-shaped gusset, and could have sworn it was a van Leyden of Esther. All I can find at the moment is this one:

I'd also swear that when we did my red gown, I had an image of another blue gown with red sleeves that had a split skirt and a red petticoat. I'd thought it was another van Leyden, but I can't find it for the life of me. 'Laina?

So I'd like to do a mid-fifteenth century gown with a front closure, split down the skirt with a decorated petticoat. My questions:

What really would constitute Dutch features at this point in time? Can I reasonably include the above? What kind of sleeves? Square neckline or round? White high-necked partlet or dark gollar? Do I need a corset, as described in the Textiler Hauserat? One piece gown or skirt and doublet?

May 2014

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