femkes_follies | Dr. Livingston, I Presume?

Anybody who knows me knows that I have a teeny tiny tendency to grab things and run with them. Today's flavor: Group Dynamics in the SCA.

Or: Why is New Group Formation in the MK the subject of so much hostility?

Cruising through various webbings of Society History has brought me to new imponderables. Bear with me as I wander in disjointed fashion through them.

The western Kingdoms in general seem to be able to spawn Principalities and often new Kingdoms with a minimum of spleen. Some of the Principalities in question remain parts of the parent Kingdom indefinitely. The Eastern Kingdoms seem to approach them with a little more indifference, but in the end manage to foster new groups with a regularity that suggests it's generally accepted practice. The Middle - fights it tooth and nail, then heaps coals on the head of the incipient groups and further tends to drive a wedge that makes peaceful co-existence as Kingdom and subdivision difficult, if not impossible. Interestingly, neither Ealdomere or Calontir has spun off a Principality either. Though I have no idea if this is due to lack of numbers, lack of desire, or an inherited cultural knee-jerk reaction against it from their mother Kingdom.

For whatever reason, new group formation of any kind in the MK seems to be greeted with hostility. Cat-pissing territorial wars, on a regular basis. Nobody wants to give up "power", "land", or "dominion." Arrrggghhhh! And yet, the MK has occasionally allowed the formation of a new group on another groups' territory against Kingdom Law. Even non-official groups in the Kingdom have a knee-jerk reaction to conflict that often involves a spin-off group (guild, household, whatever) followed by attempts at crushing out the life from the parent group.

The "Regions" of the Midrealm are officially "administrative constructs" with no offical status. And yet, they now have a slate of officers and other elements of officialdom. While breathing about forming a principality remains almost enough to warrant Banishment from the Royal Presence with certain Crowns.

The hubs opines that the differences in general attitude vary by how the Society started in that region. The Kingdom of the West began on a college campus. Thus, Multiple Colleges under the Aegis of the University are Acceptable (TM). His suspicion is that much of the formative culture of the MK happened at Sci-Fi conventions. Primarily among those who had nothing that made them feel powerful outside the Society. And so the cling to every scrap of "power" that makes them feel important and object to any perceived diminution of it strenuously. Not sure if he's right or not.

I just don't get it....

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Hola. Our new group formation is going ok out in these parts. Not sure if you know, but we're creating a shell barony on top of 5 groups in Chicago. The biggest concerns seem to be giving the barony too much power over the cantons or having any one canton be more important than another.

I think it'd be cool if all the current regions were permanent principalities. You'd have more royal presence even in the far reaches and maybe a little more fun. (Well maybe I'm the only one who thinks more royalty would be fun) But I digress, pretend power seems to cause as many problems as real power.

I think it'd be cool if all the current regions were permanent principalities. You'd have more royal presence even in the far reaches and maybe a little more fun. (Well maybe I'm the only one who thinks more royalty would be fun) But I digress, pretend power seems to cause as many problems as real power.

Or something like that, yes. I think it would be an interesting experiment at least. Formation of a Principality does not have to equal soon or even ever breaking away into a Kingdom. And I think if the MK had a better handle on that concept, they might have kept some of there previous principalities longer or even indefinitely.

Yeah, it's the pretend power thing that's making me crazy. And how neglected sections of the Region seem to be. There has been a lot of monkey business with new groups - usually involving Shires that don't have a lot of recourse to defend themselves. And they're so far out of the main, some of them might get a Royal visit every 5 or 10 years. Not because they're geographically distant but because they put on one small event that isn't deemed important enough to bother with. A couple of the "hinterlands" are pretty centrally located. Just lightweights in terms of influence with the Kingdom.

I think that the regional offices are supposed to help with levelling the playing field across the region, but we know that there are still some groups that will always get more of the spotlight. Even if both the crown and the tanists traveled every weekend to separate events, they still wouldn't get to them all. Maybe if all 4 split up, but what kind of fun would that be.

Creating a Barony over 5 co-equal Shires is almost the ideal way to do it. There is no "central" Canton. And not a single Shire going Baronial and then splinter groups forming Cantons out of pique. I'd think that the danger will be that everyone will continue playing with their Cantons and it might be difficult to get folks who want to run the Barony.

I can shed some light on this Kingdom...

They probably will not ever break into smaller Principalities. Since the entire Kingdom covers less than the Province of Ontario, there's really no need. You can drive from one end of their Kingdom to the other in less time tham it takes to drive from Halifax to Montreal...The Crown Principality of the Northern Shores is far larger, we encompass Newfoundland and Labrador as well!

Good point. I think we ended up with the Shire of Starleaf Gate because it was shorter for them to cross the Border into Michigan than to go to the nearest Ealdomeran group.

yeah, that lake is a bit of a thing to drive around!

Which is part of what isolates the Region a little. Pentamere is basically Michigan's Mitten - with a little snippet of Ontario that butts against Detroit. So the only way in or out is the southern border. Which means that the Northern groups are on the Hinterland of OUR Kingdom and don't have any other Neighboring Kingdoms. So they tend not to see a lot of Royalty. One Shire recently went Barony in part on the philosophy that they'll at least see Royalty every few years for investiture.

Atlantia has a lot of animosity regarding formation of new groups/principalities and issues of a large kingdom. Last summer our Barony, 45 minutes from D.C. was the only group to put in a bid for 12th night. We were told no thank you, its too far and the deadline was extended. So someone again brought up (I understand its a 5 year cycle) the idea of a northern principality. About 50% thought of it as a permanent principality and the rest seemed to think a principality was inevitably a bid to break up the kingdom.

On another note, this winter it was proposed by the King or Prince to make a deal with a site and set the crown tournaments at a location in the center of the kingdom. They have a huge problem getting bids because they allow the King and Queen to select their own Crown Tourney Site. Nothing like trying to reserve a place less than a year out. This proposed center site is over 7 hours from the edges of the kingdom. I guess that is an improvement since crown and coronation are usually held 12-14 hours from D.C.

Well, a central location would be more acceptable than way on one far corner of the Kingdom. Granted it's a decent site. And so far Cinci has repeatedly stepped in to host when they can't GET anybody else. So I suppose that permanence would make it easier on them. But I still think it's a bad idea.

I don't think enough people have ever sat down and thought about the ins and outs of becoming a Principality and what it really means. The Middle tends to drive its more recalcitrant regions to break away. But it doesn't have to be that way. Especially if its done not out of pique, but out of motivation for the area to become something more than it currently is. My $0.02.

Calontir is not too huge - just 4 states and Fayetteville Arkansas. Even the most difficult group to group distance is only about 9 hours.

Calontir also is not too huge in numbers of people. If you are traveling to events at least 6 times a year, you are known to most of the rest of the traveling kingdom. True, about 1/3 to 1/2 of any and every particular group doesn't travel that much, but the travelers do talk about the noteworthy deeds and skills of the less traveled group members. (When groups have less than 1/4th of their members who are "playing on a kingdom level" then the group's health sometimes comes into question.)

Calontir also has a very strong kingdom identity, built in part by the strong resistance to our birth by the crowns and power-brokers of the Middle. I can't imagine anyone in Calontir wanting to split off.

Actually it's not about splitting off. It's about adding something more to the culture of the region. Becoming a Principality for Pentamere isn't about splitting from the Mid. More about building on our own strength.

And have you seen the Midrealm calendar? There are routinely 3,4, 5 events every weekend. Most of the very small groups see Royalty on their turf every 10-12 years. Or so.

Dr. Livingston, I Presume?

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Ealdomere

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Calontir

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