I pose a question to the Scadians at large

[femkes_follies]

Now that I'm done pitching my little fit...(well, pausing, anyway)

Here's a philosophical question...

Why is it more or less acceptable (at least by MK standards) to throw an early period event, and even make it annual.... but not to theme something to later periods, because "that would make it too narrow focus and people wouldn't come."

Why is it acceptable to host an event pointed at a minor culture but not anything, say, French? Never have I seen a "Germanic Symposium" or a "French Cuture Study Day." To suggest a thing gets you "the look." (Even if you don't actually suggest the "Cheese-eating Surrender Monkey" tourney.)

Has Political Correctness come to mean anything that's considered "minority?"

Or is it that unusual cultures tend to become at least temporary fads and attract attention, at least in the short term?

Comments

why is it acceptable?

[estela-dufrayse.livejournal.com]

Because early period clothing is easy to make, and everyone has it. There is no need to push the envelope, push yourself to do anything more than a basic T tunic, so why would we have events that would!

Re: why is it acceptable?

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

Ah, the least common denominator theory. ;-) That's a very probably notion.

And I do have to remind myself that not all SCAdians are like my lj list - and can't necessarily make a full Venetian in a week!

I pose a question to the Scadians at large

[lady-guenievre.livejournal.com]

Not sure that's true - certainly there are late period events here - not sure whether you saw the pictures I posted of a GORGEOUS pas last fall, but that's late by some standards... And there's an annual rapier/ late period event up in Lochmere.

Re: I pose a question to the Scadians at large

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

I just definitely notice more resistance to doing late period themes, especially more than once.

Part of it is that they're more work - more detailed site decorating, more heraldric display, etc.

But it seems to be so much easier to get people to agree to a Viking theme than a Tudor one.

I can't, off-hand, think of an event that's a major Pas, that is put on every year. There's Toy's Tourney, some Baronial Championships... but most events are either generic or early period slanted.

[jillwheezul.livejournal.com]

My take on it is that themed events often are started by someone with a lot of like-minded friends, and they take off via cult of personality. I am pretty sure that if a well-planned later period proposal was made, complete with some sort of royalty (or past) on the cheering squad it would probably be a pretty easy sell to get in on the docket. Making it a success takes more work though. Lots of Viking stuff here, but if we were to do a 16th century event that tied in with some popular group, it would probably be quite a success, especially if you play it up with lots of word of mouth and advertising. Personal invites don't hurt either.

We have a very smart person here that remarked that most events have a bloom period of about 6 years, and after that they either die, lose interest or are so greatly successful that they continue ad nauseum. It seems the secret to long going An Tir events that make loads of money is to have them open to the public during the day (i.e. large demo village) and then private at night. Ursalmas and June Faire make lots of money that keep their respective Baronies' bank balances in the 5 figures (so I hear).

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

I think you've hit on it. And it IS hard to maintain enthusiastic staff amongst people who don't have an interest in the period.

Up here, it's pretty hard to get huge events going - the sites aren't real available. Especially when at least half the year they must be indoors.

I'm sort of against starting any new events around here to make them permanent fixtures - I think there's too many as it is. But I'd like to see some of the existing ones be less cookie-cutter.

[lady-guenievre.livejournal.com]

Just out of curiosity, how much do sites tend to run out here? they're expensive enough here that it's almost hard to be a Barony without a 5 figure bank account - there are many *events* that have, by necessity, a five figure budget or close to.

[landverhuizer.livejournal.com]

I seem to recall complaints whenever anyone has tried to do an event with any narrowing of period as part of the theme back home...

They freak because now they feel they are expected to make new cloths they either can't make or don't like wearing, what they want is generic events to fit the generic SCA (I actually toyed around with creating a persona named Jean Eric :P)

Haven't felt or noticed any issues with German or French or any other culture like that but have noticed a draw towards the exotic. Though, I am sure if hollywood were to tackle say... a 16th century French-based movie with a big name, sexy-guy actor and lots of action and other cool stuff, you will likely see more of an interest there ;)

[mistressarafina.livejournal.com]

I know there was an Elizabethan themed event a few months ago, but it was on the other side of the world so I didn't go. I think you just have to ignore the naysayers and find a group willing to go along with the idea you have in mind. I am actually thinking of doing a private 16th c event with like-minded peoples just to see how well it could go.

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

There's a thought. I'm not even wedded to the idea of a recurring event. It would just be interesting if somebody did, say, a Court of Henry VIII style Tournament, at an existing event - instead of a bear pit, or whatever. You know, bring your Herald, bring your crest and mantling, extra points for you sunshade/daycamp set up, etc....

I think there're too many events on the Calendar as it is. More on that later, too.

[mistressarafina.livejournal.com]

You're right about the calendar. It's so damned hard these days. Some group do 3 events a year!

Elizabethan-Themed Event

[elizabethankat.livejournal.com]

A group of us in Arizona put on an Elizabethan-themed feast in July (we were inspired by the Perfectly Period Feast). It wasn't an SCA event per se as it wasn't on the calendar but it also wasn't private. Instead it was a limited number of paying guests who sat the feast and an almost equal number of volunteers who did the serving, cooking, etc. People knew about this event nine months ahead of time so the guests had plenty of time to make upper class Elizabethan outfits. The volunteers made clothes more appropriate to the servant class. I truly think this is the only way to do a very specific culture/time period event because everyone involved truly wants to be there and so there's no complaining about the theme.

[pearl]

I've been having a similar muse to myself about this, but sort of from the other direction.

Now early period encompasses a whole lot (and what is considered to be 'early' is going to vary... I've had people seriously tell me anything before 1350 is early), in terms of both centuries and cultures. But at the other end of the SCA-timeframe, things get more... specific. You've sort of implied it yourself when you mention French or German events -- it isn't 'generic Germanic prior to 1600,' but is later-period and Germanic. So the people with a wardrobe of 16th century English gowns are going to make something specifically for the occasion?

To be fair, I have been to an event where it was suggested to dress in the German style, and I diligently wore my Manesse Codex-inspired outfit and felt horribly out of place (and joked that it was my late-period German dress), so maybe time period is more important than culture when it comes to event theme coherence?

Or is it that unusual cultures tend to become at least temporary fads and attract attention, at least in the short term?
Oh, yes, SCA fashion trends exist! I'm not sure about the culture needing to be 'unusual,' but especially if it is a fashion people don't have to think too hard about, because everyone is using the same pattern for example, then people will wear it en masse to fit in. I'm not sure I've seen that trend for clothes any latter than the fitted-cotte look, though.

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

I pretty much mean anything Anglo-Saxon and prior when I say "early period." But then, I don't really get the inclusion of the Roman legionaires in the "Current Middle Ages" either.

To be fair, most of the early period events around here are "Viking" themed. And we had a series of Crowns concentrating on that period. OK, bored now.

And yes, it is more specific. But, on the other hand, more info is available. Which means you can BE more specific - both in terms of garb and the event itself. There are written accounts of some Tourneys that describe exactly what went on. And I've never seen anybody try it.

*shrug* I just get such funny looks from people when I suggest it.

Local fads - Slavic or Middle Eastern. I don't really have an interest in either - but if you want a themed event, it's one or the other.

Yeah, I think part of it is that later period stuff is just plain harder. There are more pieces, they need to fit better, and the construction can get plain complex. But, we've had whole reigns that had a specific cultural theme, and there wasn't any huge pressure to dress the part. Even though general patterns and weblinks were made available for the interested.

[pearl]

And yes, it is more specific. But, on the other hand, more info is available. Which means you can BE more specific - both in terms of garb and the event itself.

But that's where I can understand there being resistance -- have an early period/Slavic event, and there is a lot more leeway in what you can wear. You can probably get away with mixing and matching items in your wardrobe up until 12th century styles. Maybe just making a new over-layer. (Not sure about Middle Eastern, but early period Persian looks generic, with tiraz bands.) Another thing that gives leeway, for Viking-Age-themed events especially, is that you can wear all sorts of outfits from different cultures, because the Norse did travel far and wide. I'm not so sure that you could as easily wear a 16th century Venetian gown to a 16th century German event.

But later periods? When you can watch people argue over mixing fashions from different decades? You can't just fudge it and wear a 'Cranach' gown somehow combined with a 'Netherlandish' dress (well, I'm sure you can, but people will notice!)-- the complexity is not only in terms of garment construction, but that because there is so much more information, you can't mix and match as easily.

I think I might be arguing something slightly different, too. The event theme can be as complex and accurate as the organisers like, but it is not going to stop people throwing up their hands, not making anything new, and wearing what they usually wear.
But if the organisers want people to dress to suit the event as well, then you're more likely to get it if it is an earlier period event.

The only regular time-period-themed event that I can think of, in my area, is an Angevin-themed tournament and feast. The 12th century people dress up to the nines, but most everyone else just wears whatever they want. There's a war I'm going to soon that for this year has a Viking theme, but usually it doesn't. Themed events are rare, but so are Slavs and Middle Eastern personae in these parts.

But, we've had whole reigns that had a specific cultural theme, and there wasn't any huge pressure to dress the part. Even though general patterns and weblinks were made available for the interested.

It seems to depend how charismatic the rulers are. One Viking-themed reign everyone was wearing Norse, along comes another reign with a different Viking-Age king and queen and... maybe one or two people wore apron dresses.
The one that surprised me, was the Frankish reign recently, where I thought people would leap at the chance to dress like 'Queen Arnegunde' and... nothing. Charisma plays a very large part in fashion, too.

[gwacie.livejournal.com]

That's funny; I remember a few years ago there was a call for limited focus events and then bam suddenly there were fifteen 16th century events on the calendar and I was going "hey? Where's the love for the earlier times?" but 16th century has the most sources available so its popular for limited focus events.