Time to talk of A&S faires, cabbages, and Kings....

[femkes_follies]

Well, A&S Faires, anyway.

I'm not sure how much InterKingdom Anthropology exists here, so I'll cover local CUSTOM for the out-of-Kingdom sorts. (Bold indicating that Custom often has greater weight than Law, Common Sense, or Logic.)

Every spring each Region in the MK holds a Regional Faire. You must obtain a 1st or 2nd at the Regional Faire in order to move on to Kingdom. This is, in practice, not very hard. It might weed out one or two entries? Note: You need not enter your own Region's Regional. Just a Regional.

This has the effect of creating a madhouse of scheduling every spring. Five regions must put on Faires prior to the Kingdom Faire, always scheduled over Memorial Weekend. They're not supposed to conflict with each other. When TRMs decide they want to attend them all, they must also not coflict with other major Events (Wars, War Practices, RUMs, etc.) It should also be noted that at least some regions get a max of 20 entries. This makes creating a "Faire" that stands alone difficult, as attendance is low. So it's usually piggy-backed onto an existing event.

The aggravation this creates means Faires often get scheduled on short notice. Having the self-defeating result of further lowering the number of entries. Then there is the dragging of Kingdom folks to events that are further than they want to go and the resulting whining and whinging. And the offense given to the hosting group when it's made known that they're too far away and may not host again - however good a job they may have done. And the spreading of judges way too thin. Making it hard to remove or avoid judges who have trouble with not being nasty. A&S Horror Stories are one of the reasons for the lack of participation. And it's not just from the dark and dusty past. I'm sorry but the phrase "I'm appalled by the entrants lack of understanding of correct construction techniques" is a little over the top. Especially when the judge in question was flat out wrong.

Granted, a fair number of the judges who were overly rude at Faire have moved on to other venues, as they need SOME way to vent their spleen. Plus, they will return willingly to keep at it when it's made known that Regional Faires are always short judges.

I submit that it might be worth eliminating the Regional Faires. At least as prerequisites to Kingdom. It wouldn't increase the number of Kingdom entries by that many. And it would sure make a lot of people's lives easier. Maybe even transition the Regional Faires into more generalized A&S events.

F'rinstance:

Instead of a strict A&S competition based on Kingdom standards, offer a number of outlets. A Laurel Prize Tourney, a Body of Work display, a Craftperson's faire. There aren't all that many items that would transcend all three. It would encourage more people to attend. If somebody feels it necessary, retain a Regional A&S competition for it's own sake. But don't shackle it to Kingdom and eliminate it's use as a prereq. Reserve it for folks who don't want or can't travel to Kingdom. And for folks who are new to A&S to get their feet wet. It might longterm increase general Faire participation.

Caveat: This might all be a bit colored by my residence in a region that seems to end up on the short end of the A&S stick regularly. Nobody wants to head up here at all, except on those occasions when Royalty is from the Region. And Northshield's Kingdom status has seem to result in the redrawing of the "Great White North" line to cross Michigan around Grand Rapids to Lansing. Nobody from outside the Region wants to go any farther, no matter how willing or able groups North of that line are to host. It will make one cranky after a while. There seems to be a degree of becoming second-class citizens. Perhaps fortunately, there's not enough organization to spearhead a Principality movement. But continued obvious snubbing is likely to light that fuse sooner or later. While I'll be the first to note that Principality status tends to lessen, rather than increase, visits from the King and Queen... to be frank, I'm not going to stand by with a bucket of water, either. I can see the problem, and it's likely to be self-perpetuating in a snowball-rolling-downhilll sort of way.

/soapbox.

Comments

[gwacie.livejournal.com]

For me the main reason for the A&S faires is to get people to actually stop and write documentation; most of the other venues (Authentic artifact showcase, laurel prize tourney, craftsperson's faire, etc.) don't -require- documentation.

I also think Documentation keeps a lot of people from entering (rare and few are those of us who love writing term papers ;)) But I think documentation is important and good and pie!

Oaken, and North Oaken specifically, has been very active in A&S faires so I'm probably coming from a totally different perspective there.

One addendum to your rules outlined above: you must enter your region's regional A&S if you are entering Divisional Champion or Pentathalon. Though there is always the "Or ask permission" addendum; and I've never heard of anyone being refused. I specifically know of an entry that got a third place being allowed to enter Kingdom because the entrant asked permission, and the first time I won Divisional (I didn't know I was entered!) my entry violated the "at least three categories" rule as they were in two categories.

Uh oh... I'm babbling again... ;)

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

Babbling is sometimes good!

How many people avoid documentation because a large proportion of the Horror Stories involve documentation. If it's not going to be good enough, why bother, after all?

Granted, there are a lot of folks who try to back-document. And get frustrated. And those who don't want to be bothered.

One addendum to your rules outlined above: you must enter your region's regional A&S if you are entering Divisional Champion or Pentathalon. Though there is always the "Or ask permission" addendum; and I've never heard of anyone being refused. I specifically know of an entry that got a third place being allowed to enter Kingdom because the entrant asked permission, and the first time I won Divisional (I didn't know I was entered!) my entry violated the "at least three categories" rule as they were in two categories.

Well, yes. But does any of that acutally REQUIRE the existence of the Regional Faire? And if we're going to continually break the rules in order to get "enough" entrants for whatever value of "enough".... why bother with them at all.

Yeah, Pentamere is in a weird place. We don't have that many Laurels. We have fewer who are that interested in A&S faires. And of those, 1/2 should be barred from judging based on attitude alone. Most of those are on the East side of the state. Those groups exhibit no interest in hosting Faire. And nobody comes FROM the East side when it's hosted out of the West. I suspect a lot of them go to North Oaken.

My point, I suppose, being that the Out-state (read here: Not Metro Detroit and ass'd area) segment of Pentamere may as well have been sawed off and allowed to float off into Lake Michigan or Lake Superior. The Regional Faire is serving to increase the feeling of isolation, rather than decrease it. And the way it's reacted to by some of the Powers That Be makes it clear that nobody cares. So, if you want to even claim to encourage the Arts and Sciences in this ares - quit insisting on a Regional Faire that is always Where and When you don't want it. And just let us all compete at Kingdom on equal footing.

[gwacie.livejournal.com]

You know... we don't get a lot of laurels participating in our regional A&S either; which is sad since I think a lot of people enter hoping to be seen by or get feedback from laurels.

I really think part of the problem of the A&S faires is people's expectations of them not matching reality; and the real big problem is getting qualified judges. We don't get enough that we can afford to turn any away (though believe me the regional A&S ministers and Kingdom A&S folks keep a sharp eye on a few particular favorites and it has happened for a judge to be asked to re-judge an entry because their score or comments were unacceptable.)

In any case, I don't think it's broken so much as a concept, it's the execution that needs help. Now how to fix that... *sigh* you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it -care-.

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

See, I think that lack of qualified judges is another reason to do away with Regionals except as a singular entity if the Region WANTS to. So I guess I'd say the concept IS broken. Or outmoded, now that none of the Regions are THAT far from each other.

[eleanor-deyeson.livejournal.com]

The sheer horror of the scheduling nightmare would suggest that a change needs to be made.

And if less-than-stellar judges are part of the regional A&S scene, it gives another reason to change.

However, you must acknowledge, if Regional's are eliminated as a prerequisite to Kingdom A&S, how much farther will you have to go to get to Kingdom. Will the people who are competing in your region travel the extra distance? Since probably, your area won't be chosen as hosts for Kingdom A&S.

In Calontir, we have every January what is called Queen's Prize, a judged, yet not directly competitive event for anyone who does not have a GoA level Arts or Sciences award. It was intially designed for true beginners, as every entrant has a GoA or Laurel sponsor to help guide them, and every entrant takes home some prize from one of the OTHER sponsors. Now-a-days, it seems to be a bit of a showcase for those who are hoping to get the GoA, but haven't yet. It helps make your skills known to others. It's like a big science fair, and people are constantly walking around and checking out the other projects. And the populace are encouraged to give tokens or gifts to any project they like. My daughter got a really cool blown glass fish as one of her tokens.

The queen picks one or more favorites, and every judge gets to vote on a favorite. (All the judges are supposed to put a bit into the "judges choice" goody basket, so really, winning judges choice is the top prize, as having even a little bit of coolness from 50 or so judges makes a nice haul.)

Then we have Kingdom A&S in July, where if you enter the championship, you need to have 3 entries, which are each in different crafts/skill sets, although they can all be part of a complete project. We only had 7 entrants in the Championship last year, but about 40-50 entrants in "tri-levels" where [theoretically] the entrant gets to choose if they are judged at novice, intermediate, or advanced level. Again, science fair type atmosphere, and the populace gives tokens. But generally, you don't get as many or as cool of tokens from Kingdom A&S.

But, of course, Calontir is much smaller in land area than the Middle, as well as a smaller population. I believe it was people in this area feeling much like you feel now that led to the birth of our Kingdom 25 years ago.

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

In Calontir, we have every January what is called Queen's Prize, a judged, yet not directly competitive event for anyone who does not have a GoA level Arts or Sciences award. It was intially designed for true beginners, as every entrant has a GoA or Laurel sponsor to help guide them, and every entrant takes home some prize from one of the OTHER sponsors. Now-a-days, it seems to be a bit of a showcase for those who are hoping to get the GoA, but haven't yet.

I think that would be something to shoot for, yes.

But, of course, Calontir is much smaller in land area than the Middle, as well as a smaller population. I believe it was people in this area feeling much like you feel now that led to the birth of our Kingdom 25 years ago.

The middle isn't so huge, anymore. Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, MI, and a swath of Ontario and Kentucky. Less than 1/2 the area when Northshield was included. I really do not understand all the whining and whinging about events in Northern Mich. Heck, repeated sequential Crowns and Coronations have been down in Cinncinatti - at the other extreme end of the Kingdom. In spite of other bids. I'm not sure if it's sheer weight of population. Or an elite cadre of people who just don't want to come this far from their region. I don't really think Pentamere could reasonable support it's own Kingdom. Especially since I'm not sure that Detroit wouldn't choose to stick with the Middle Proper, being closer to Toledo and Cleveland than some of the rest of the state. (Ah, Toledo. The piece of Michigan nobody wanted :-). Though 20 years as a Principality (like our Cousins in Northshield) might change that. It's just so hard to say. And I'm not sure it wouldn't create more problems than it would solve. But there's beginning to be an air of "second-class citizenship" that's a bit tiresome, frankly.

[gwacie.livejournal.com]

One of my friends from Kentucky made a comment about their group being the bottom end of the kingdom, and Cleftlands is the nose, heh. We get a lot of folks who don't want to travel to us since we're on the very edge of the map as well. Honestly, we're closer to a lot of Aethelmearc events than some in our region! (I recall once when I was regional signet having to drive 6 hours for an event in our region and my husband went 2 hours into Aethelmearc for a conflicting event. *sigh*)

It's funny how much the artificial borders mean so much to us. So often I didn't think anything of driving to Kentucky for an event when a drive up into the far reaches of Michigan seemed too far (though it was the same distance!) because that was another region ;) I had a bit of an epiphany once when I realized a lot of the folks who were talking about the importance of travel and being active on a Kingdom level didn't really mean Kingdom... they meant Region. People is silly.

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, true. But have you ever been told that you're too far away, don't bid again thankyouverymuch? And had subsequent bids rejected.

Ohio is a BIG state. (Well, so is MI, but the UP is Northshield). I think some of the politics of it is who's in office at any given time, and what region they favor.

[gwacie.livejournal.com]

It can be entirely an unconscious bias; they just don't realize what the distance is because rather than look at a map they're going with their gut. "I drive out that way all the time... it's not far but Michigan! Gad! That's a jillion quadrillion miles!" ;)

We (Cleftlands)'ve never been told (in my experience) that we're too far... but then we also have a dense population here so we have our own draw. (sort of like a black hole?)

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

Yes, but rejecting a bid based on projected lower attendance is different than Kingdom folks dictating location of a Regional event because its too far FROM them. You took the job - suck it up.

It also seems, very subjectively, that a lot of Kingdom stuff has been slated very heavily toward South Oaken for a number of years. While I understand that weight follows the Crown - nobody seems to have made a substantial effort to even things out much at all.

[gwacie.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the insight into Calontir's A&S. :)

[alysten.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm... Had a bit of a panic attack and had to check EK rules.

We don't have anything like that here. Everyone is allowed to enter K & Q, as long as they follow the deadline and registration rules. Makes for an intense competition from my understanding.

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

*g* I know the panic feeling. I've had people who didn't know what they were talking about do that to me.

And I guess I'm saying that a single Faire makes more sense. Or divided like Calontir's, by purpose and experience level. The geographic business if more bother than it's worth.

[ablackram.livejournal.com]

nope...I'm still at the tearing of my hair out and on the verge of tears over this stupid thing. Gaaaaawwww

And....I got an email after my post on date and time change...don't expect a lot of people from our area as there is a big wedding. WTF even when it is in their area the only person who entered was ME, the Regional!

I assume no Pammy tonight and no squirt. So I guess I'm going to work on my chemise in the house and listen to the practice going on downstairs.

Going back to banging my head against the wall. And here I was sooo proud that I lost 5# in the past week. Wheres the cheetos......

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

I'm madly scanning the book of bequests before I return it tonight.

Do you need company? Or quiet?

My $0.02

[mistressarafina.livejournal.com]

I think we should get rid of the regional faires altogether. Since they ostensibly serve to weed out the lowest scores (thirds and honorable mentions) and because we as a general rule don't like to hurt people's feelings (judges comments not withstanding), most entries get through to kingdom anyway. (sorry for the run-on there).

The faires are always struggling to find a free weekend and can be stretched thin for judges. I broached the subject and you would've thought I asked to cancel Christmas. There's really no good reason to keep the regionals that I've heard, but who cares what I think?

PS Are you free for RUM or is it up against something you're already doing?

Re: My $0.02

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

Well, technically, that's the weekend of our Baronial Championships. John wants to stand, but his knee might not tolerate it. So, a little up in the air. If I'm feeling brave, maybe we'll divide our forces. Though if I bring the girls with me, my class-taking ability migh be limited. Anneliese might not be cooperative (Though with her little Nintendo DS, she might).

Re: My $0.02

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the Regionals need to go Buh-Bye. But how do you accomplish that?

Re: My $0.02

[alysten.livejournal.com]

Can you site other kingdoms that don't do regionals? I think they are anticipating 500 + people at our A & S, but a couple hundred could be fighters.

Re: My $0.02

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

Probably not with any weight. *g* Any more than the East would willingly consider the Customs of People Who Bow to Furniture.

[odettedamboise.livejournal.com]

I use a bad experience with A&S as an excuse to not enter, but I really don't enter because I don't someone else to validate my A&S projects. Of course, my arts are all things that I use while at events. I am contemplating, inspired by gwacie, to enter this year to force myself to put it all together and stretch myself with a pent entry. I will not be back documenting, per se, because I only make things I can find sources for so documentation would just be going back and writing it all down. And finally get to use EndNote

I really think the answer to the regional A&S is to cement the weekends in kingdom law like we do with Coronation and Crown, except you can schedule other events that weekend. That way the regions always know when they are, and there can be adequate planning. It think permanently setting the date would be good to that with RUM as well.

I am the local chronicler and I am working on an A&S edition to inspire everyone to get out an enter the regional A&S. I will take articles from contributors from outside our group. :)

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

Setting dates would likely make things worse up here. There aren't enough folks involved to make a stand-alone event of it. Which means that we have to find an existing event to piggy-back it on to. So if there are no events on the "set" weekend - then what? None of the local groups are vested enough in it to move their event to accomodate Faire.

I think the set weekends are a little silly anyway. Sometimes that weekend is already booked at a given venue. And there aren't that many places within budget that can accomodate big events.

I've also noted that Event Date Is Set By Kingdom Law Unless It Isn't. *eye roll*

Heck, there has even been harumphing in some quarters because the new reset date for Regional Faire is the same weekend as a Wedding. Which tells you about how much it's valued.