More Politics - SCA style
Jun. 24th, 2009 10:36 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
femkes_folliesSome people see the glass as half full, while others see it as half empty.
I tend to see it as half empty, and very likely laced with iocaine powder (extra credit for the reference).
That said, is it me, or does there seem to be a lot of monkey-business going on in the Middle Kingdom lately with incipient groups forming and being allowed to form on territory belonging to other groups. Against Kingdom Law. And most of them seem to be households who decide they're in a snit and want to be their own group.
More people (including the Kingdom Officers in charge) apparently need to read Kingdom Law:
1. New Groups Designations Groups seeking establishment will be identified for administrative purposes by one of two designators:
1.1. Applicant Group: An applicant group is any group of people who express interest in beginning the process of becoming a full status group in the Middle Kingdom.
1.2. Incipient Group: An incipient group is an applicant group that has received agreement from its administering branch and whose officers have been designated as deputies of the officers of that administering branch. A group may be designated Incipient by the Kingdom Seneschal or their designated deputy.
2. Reasons for Forming a Group It is recognized that a broad variety of reasons may exist for the establishment of a group. Politics, interpersonal issues, or other conflict-based reasons will not be acceptable as a reason to begin the establishment process, and any group’s request based on those reasons will be denied.
....
3.1.1. If the group seeking establishment falls within the boundaries of an established and full status group, it will be that group’s responsibility to serve as the administering branch. In the case where the established group is also a part of a Barony, the Baron, Baroness and Baronial Seneschal must also be consulted.
3.1.1.1. Under no circumstances shall full status group be required to give up lands already owned by them to a group seeking establishment.
Sooo.... if you've just been publicly told "No, you can't have those lands" from the group that holds them.... by extension you are not - or bloody well shouldn't be - an Incipient Group at all. At best, you're an applicant group. More likely, a household with pretensions. Though it seems to have been going on for several years.
As this is the second time this has happened on that side of the state (and the last time, the incipient group was allowed to take territory from another group and join a neighboring barony instead), one wonders what the point is OF the Kingdom law.
I tend to see it as half empty, and very likely laced with iocaine powder (extra credit for the reference).
That said, is it me, or does there seem to be a lot of monkey-business going on in the Middle Kingdom lately with incipient groups forming and being allowed to form on territory belonging to other groups. Against Kingdom Law. And most of them seem to be households who decide they're in a snit and want to be their own group.
More people (including the Kingdom Officers in charge) apparently need to read Kingdom Law:
1. New Groups Designations Groups seeking establishment will be identified for administrative purposes by one of two designators:
1.1. Applicant Group: An applicant group is any group of people who express interest in beginning the process of becoming a full status group in the Middle Kingdom.
1.2. Incipient Group: An incipient group is an applicant group that has received agreement from its administering branch and whose officers have been designated as deputies of the officers of that administering branch. A group may be designated Incipient by the Kingdom Seneschal or their designated deputy.
2. Reasons for Forming a Group It is recognized that a broad variety of reasons may exist for the establishment of a group. Politics, interpersonal issues, or other conflict-based reasons will not be acceptable as a reason to begin the establishment process, and any group’s request based on those reasons will be denied.
....
3.1.1. If the group seeking establishment falls within the boundaries of an established and full status group, it will be that group’s responsibility to serve as the administering branch. In the case where the established group is also a part of a Barony, the Baron, Baroness and Baronial Seneschal must also be consulted.
3.1.1.1. Under no circumstances shall full status group be required to give up lands already owned by them to a group seeking establishment.
Sooo.... if you've just been publicly told "No, you can't have those lands" from the group that holds them.... by extension you are not - or bloody well shouldn't be - an Incipient Group at all. At best, you're an applicant group. More likely, a household with pretensions. Though it seems to have been going on for several years.
As this is the second time this has happened on that side of the state (and the last time, the incipient group was allowed to take territory from another group and join a neighboring barony instead), one wonders what the point is OF the Kingdom law.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-24 03:32 pm (UTC)Unfortunately the group lost its momentum and disbanded before becoming a full-fledged canton. We got some good members from them.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-24 03:48 pm (UTC)Not-to-be-trusted gossip implied in the first instance that one of the incipient group officers in question was friends with the Kingdom Seneschal at the time - who them turned a blind eye and ear to loud protests from the Shire. It was a large chunk of territory for a group that already has trouble maintaining membership. The bitterness is strong, and I've only really spent a fairly small amount of time with them.
The other group is a recent occurrence.
I suppose its part and parcel of a knee-jerk reaction I'm having to groups of people getting together and declaring "We're the Middle Kingdom Guild of Hoohobbers." or "We're the Incipient Canton of Jungle Joom, because we want to play with the Barony of Supercool and all the fun things they do rather than the boring old Shire of Struggling Streams." Sometimes its probably out of ignorance of how you go about becoming an incipient group or obtaining a Charter to use the name "Middle Kingdom" in a group title. But sometimes its not. And it isn't fair to the people who DO play by the rules.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-24 04:54 pm (UTC)Though I have little problem with territorial lands and such... doesn't effect my game and it's all on paper anyhow..
what gets me is when houses and other such clusters get in a snit and want to form their own group based on their issues. Not only is it silly and rather childish but it would be very unlikely to work out and end up causing so many people problems for no gain what so ever. Exclusivity just doesn't work when trying to form and maintain new groups and autocratic behaviour doesn't do so well either :P
I've been a part of, and willingly blind to, such happenings before which lead to my disinterest in playing for a while and inability to support the furthering of such a group... it was rather sad really. No lands were taken from a neighbouring group however... not that it would happen here.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-24 06:07 pm (UTC)Granted, I'm rather unfond of all of the nearest groups. So we tend to just cherry-pick which events and meetings we go to.
And I understand the concept of being annoyed when all group business is conducted on one end of a Shire and you live in the other. This in particular seems to cause a lot of friction. Nobody wants to compromise and nobody wants to drive. I keep MY mouth shut on a lot of it, because I feel like I can either drive to the site selected or open my own house. If I can do neither, than it's my own problem.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-25 12:52 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-24 05:01 pm (UTC)Do complain. Do be in a snit. Do write. It could cause a postive change.
yours,Ithriliel,retired kingdom seneschal who wouldn't even permit "regions" because she could see this stuff coming.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-24 06:03 pm (UTC)I just never know which way to jump on these things. I'm not a member of any of the groups involved, just watching from a distance. I sort of anticipate a "It really isn't any of your business" response sometimes. It's just a spasm I have against what seems like intermittent rule enforcement. Clearly there have been issues recently, as the Kingdom guidelines for new group formation have recently been rewritten and a FAQ list added. You'd think they'd be more on top of this.
BTW - IS there a list anywhere of official Applicant and Incipient groups?
Maybe I will sit down and compose something. There have been a lot of iffy changes and poor behavior lately. And some of them have the potential to affront a segment of the population sufficiently to incite a movement toward forming a principality if it continues. Which wouldn't be good for anybody, at least at the moment.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-25 05:11 am (UTC)You don't actually see or hear from me often because I liked the rules to apply to everyone the same way. We did not allow groups to splinter. We prevented events from overlapping so both events suffered. I liked the Kingdom mentality rather than the regional mentality. Now my ears bleed.
Check the current facts. Take a deep breath and write a letter. You might make no difference at all but at least you would have had your say. Use the chain of command though or they will write you off as a looney. In other words don't go right to the BOD and say "the people running my kingdom stink". That would be stepping on my territory. The War , if you go, might be a good place for discussion with like minded people and I believe there is a newspaper you could put and ad in to do just that.
Best of luck with all of this.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-06-25 12:54 am (UTC)The splintering of a group is bad, esp. when there is not an overall desire for a group to do so... HOWEVER, in the case of a group being able to foster off the formation of a new group... this is good.
Just generally speaking...