Regions and levels and what makes the game the "game."

[femkes_follies]

Bear with me here. I had a C-section with 10 puppies interrupt my afternoon, so now I'm too tired to be bothered with the stress of cutting out the trim for John's new Waffenrok. (I have 1 yd - it should be JUST enough = how to summon the Gods of Chaos and ensure that I screw it up, as I can't currently get more).

Some of you are on various filters, so some of this will be kind of a repeat, though in more general terms.

In terms of what makes the game "fun" for you in the society:

I've held forth before on my opinion that people tend to play on various "levels." Some people operate primarily at the Society level (On the Grand Council, Mayor of Pennsic, etc). Others at the Kingdom level (Curia, many Peers, Crown and coeteries thereof). Others operate at the Regional level (Regional officers, those in a Regional fighting unit, etc). The rest more at a local level. Some people are also more adept at moving in between.

So in general terms, people operating at the Kingdom level feel pretty tied into the Kingdom. But what about the rest? What, specifically, makes people at the Regional level or below feel like part of the "magic?" (and by below, I don't really mean to imply anything other than that's how the tree looks in my head. I suppose I could have gone right-to-left, but my brain is more vertically oriented). Royal visits? Retaining? Helping your local group host Crown, or Twelfth Night? Getting awards and seeing other people in the local area get awards? Fighting under the Midrealm banner?

What interferes with feeling part of the Kingdom? Do you get aggravated when you feel your area is neglected? When nobody local has gotten recognized, even though YOU feel they deserve it? Does fighting under a Baronial or Shire banner make you feel more part of the Barony, at the expense of feeling like part of the Region of Kingdom? Do household loyalties interefere? What if the Household is multi-Kingdom?

Those of you who primarily operate on a Kingdom level, do you feel more loyalty to the Kingdom than before you "peeked behind the curtain?" Less? Do Household ties or local pressures make you feel like you're between a rock and a hard place? Do people who have claims on you expect you do favor them specifically, and do you find that a stressful situation if it's perhaps in contrast with what might be better for the Kingdom as a whole? Do the people locally feel as strongly tied to the Kingdom as you do? Would you know if they didn't?

Speak forth and share your opinions. I know y'all have got 'em.

ETA - This post is wide open for a reason. ;-) I'm interested in opinions even of people I don't know. Those in areas that seem to be less tied to their Kingdoms in some ways - Tir Mara, the proposed An Tir Principality, Norther Atlanita, New Zealand in general - and those that ARE the epicenter of their kingdom. As well as opinions from older Kingdoms about WHY they are now Kingdoms, whether that process was smooth or not.

Which brings up another question - Is it the responsibility of the Crown and Kingdom to make a concerted effort to look for signs of "marginalization" and attempt to correct it? The responsibility of those who feel marginalized to FIND ways to be part of the Kingdom? Or just a sign that things have changed and it might be time to re-evaluate the entire relationship?

Comments

[landverhuizer.livejournal.com]

What makes it fun...

I have a fairly simplistic approach to this, I just like opportunities to play while doing the various things I enjoy (as in learning/researching and showing off/using various projects and cooking) which can manifest itself through various levels from Kingdom to Barony, Canton or Shire.


Almost all of my play and volunteerism has taken place at Barony, Shire and Regional levels be it through making scrolls, donations/projects, teaching, event help, offices or cooking... oddly, even doing some of this at the kingdom level have not really imparted a feeling of playing at the Kingdom level and I really don't know why.
...I'm guessing it could possibly be to do with not being able to travel out to non-local Kingdom events. The only real connection I may feel is through my work within the A&S/cooking crowd.

Do you get aggravated when you feel your area is neglected?
When nobody local has gotten recognized, even though YOU feel they deserve it?
Yes, I do... I used to live in a shire and it was very frustrating to see so many people overlooked, worse to see so little of anything that Baronies and more central groups were getting.

Does fighting under a Baronial or Shire banner make you feel more part of the Barony, at the expense of feeling like part of the Region of Kingdom?
I have worn Baronial colours (they gave out baldrics to those who authorize in one of the martial arts) and it had not left me feeling any less a part of the parent groups... not sure if it would be different in a Kingdom, or multi kingdom, setting however.

Do household loyalties interefere?
I have been in multikingdom houses and found they did not interfere at all but have been very aware of houses that had 'loyalty to house first' rules. I have gone to events that had high household presence with no Barony/Shire/kingdom presence at all so can guess that some houses can interfere.

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

Do you think perspective if colored strongly by whether you're in a shire or a Barony?

And, do you think that, given the distance and struggle, that there's a stronger loyalty to the Principality than to the Kingdom, in that region?

[landverhuizer.livejournal.com]

Well, I have found Barony style play to be somewhat more independent feeling from Kingdom than Shire play. I did find that on moving to a Shire that the near complete lack of courts being held had impacted the style of play to a great degree, yet it also sorta gave a higher degree of dependence on Kingdom for the full SCA experience. I know people who pretty much skip shire level play all together and just play at principality and Kingdom.

The loyalty thing is a tough one to answer, when I left there was still a fair bit of "loyalty", as far as I could tell, to Kingdom though what has helped is that the royalty were making more frequent trips into the region (once, and occasionally, twice a year but to us that is frequent). Region pride was, and I imagine still is, quite strong though but this would likely never occur without it's major-ish events and it's army to stand behind... as the crown principality grows with the changes of being able to have a name and heraldry, I suspect it will grow and once it becomes a full principality, I could only guess that it could grow stronger (just guessing from the current/past trends).

[alysten.livejournal.com]

I probably have a pretty skewed view of the SCA and groups and loyalties and the like. I play at 3 different levels that are all intricately woven together. And keep in mind I've only been in for just over 2 years.

Being a 'new kid' with skills has put me in a neat position of being in front of royalty very early on in my SCA life. At my 2nd event I had just authorized and skipped to HRH to do a fitting for a doublet she was going to fence in. I was bouncing up and down the entire time. I didn't know about reverence or politcal niceties, especially since she was bouncing up and down with me. And my interactions with the Royals have kinda all prgressed the same way. 4 sets of royals, 4 sets of rapier armor (soon to be 5), 4 similar experiences with playing at the kingdom level.

I also play at the society/kingdom level as the EK webminister. Which is a totally different working experience in politics. Not a job if you 'want to make friends'. This is definitely a job where you have to balance get shit done, make royals happy and doing things that are unpopular, but needed for the good of many. I move a lot of cheese.

At the baronial/regional level, I'm in the barional household until my reign as A & S is over. But I have the ability to play whereever I want (kitchen or rapier list).
At a household level, I'm in a rapier/service household that spans the southern region of the EK. Here, I can just be myself with likeminded folks. These are usually the peeps that protect me from myself and help me navigate the waters of EK politics. There are quite a number of us that play at the kingdom level and there are at least 4 greater kingdom officers in our house (it just kinda happened that way).

All of this has created a strong sense of loyalty to my house, to the barony, and to the kingdom. But they are woven in an intricate pattern. Not strung together chaotically.

The awards thing is a different thing entirely. I love seeing people get them. I have a hard time getting them. I feel strange getting awards for 'doing my job'.I've also have a bit of being in the right place at the right time with the skills needed to get things done.

As I said... I know I skew the curve in questions like these. Hopefully this makes sense.

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

Well, you are sort of unique. ;-) But that doesn't mean you don't count!

I do think that the question of whether the other folks back home in your Barony (and the Baronial household you spoke of) have anywhere near the same connection - and would you know?

I think it's hard to put yourself in the shoes of those who are watching the High and Mighty from the cheap seats when you, yourself DO know what's going on , and why.

It also sounds like you manage to be (physically) in what is more or less the political center for the Kingdom of the East. Which, I think, can also make a difference. People in Tir Mara might feel differently, too. (They're likely to speak up, soon ;-)

[alysten.livejournal.com]

The folks in the baronial house hold I think feel more connected than I do at times. In the barony, I feel like I'm a part of. The retinue, I feel a little fringe. But I'm ok with that actually. My sys admin, also same baronial house would probably say more connected at the baronial level less at the kingdom level (even though I would be lost with out him as the kingdom admin).

The east is a large portion southern and central region, less northern and I feel for the folks in Tir Mara. I started in carolingia (central), was adopted by the Malagentian(northern) fencers, and now am in Bhakail (southern). I also have had good exposure to lots or areas of the kingdom. I am kinda glad that Tir Mara is developing their own area, as that part of the kingdom is very much a unique entity. And unfortunatly my exposure to that cultural entity is extemely limited. It doesn't help that I only speak english.

I think also my exposure has a lot to do with how I got introduced to various members in the kingdom. After I met Liam st liam, things just kinda snowballed.

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes. Falling in with Evil Companions will do that (Looks around quickly to make sure Liam isn't looking).

I DO understand that feeling fringe-y with the retinue. I had the same sensation as Regional Signet whenever I was on the dais or in the Royalty Room. In part, because I WAS outside the relationships that existed in the actual retinue. I was serving a Useful Function, but at the end of the reign we would be parting company. I also sat back and watched six sets of Royals come and go.

I'm going to throw something out, that's just a theory, and may be IKA to start with:

I think that the fencing community tends to be rather insular - and if you're a part of it, THAT loyalty may sort of make up for any distance you may feel from local groups. That may be a carry-over from the struggle to get fencing recognized in the SCA. Locally, it also seems to be a defense from what the fencing community sees as being treated as "second class citizens" to the heavy fighters. What say you?

[alysten.livejournal.com]

I think there might be some of that with the fencing community in general or at least the fairly old fencing schools/households. Our group is kinda unique in that there are so many fencers that do other stuff, that we have "integrated" into normal society. Many of the folks cross over into cooking, sewing, heraldry illuminations and bardic stuff.

I haven't experienced much of the insular community, though I will not dispute that it exists. There is still quite a bit of bitterness with the heavies as a general rule. But here in the east where it is becoming "cool" for the heavies to cross over into rapier, it is becoming a little less so. I have not known a reign where there wasn't a royal or heir that wasn't picking up a blade, and playing with the fencers. I think it comes from the fact that we are playing with "real" weapons and live steel, and they are still playing with sticks. Let's face it, today's heavy rapiers and Cut and Thrust weapons are pretty darn close to what they actually used than foils and epees. And here in our barony, that has gone a long way to legitimatizing our sport. (So sayth the fighters themselves.)

I have told many "back in the day stories". So I think it is safe to say, I personally haven't seen any of the things that I know historically have happened. You can see the hand prints on my mask for how many times I've been patted on the head and told, "there, there young fencer, let Auntie May tell you a story".

[mistressarafina.livejournal.com]

So many questions...

I always explain to non-SCAdians, that the SCA is a do-it-yourself hobby. As much as we try to be welcoming and all that, it is up to the individual to take responsibility for making their own fun. I think the same applies to groups and such as well.

I will speak for myself and maybe a bit for my hubby. I am the nerd who likes meetings and learning how things worked. I was exposed to royalty early in my SCA life and had friends who were peers, so I never really had the huge fear that can go along with that. As a result, I think I just gravitate towards playing on a kingdom level although I do play locally as well, having been an officer of some sort for the past 11 years (from the very first meeting actually) with my local group.

My husband loves the SCA - sometimes a little too much I think, but it's his love that keeps him connected to the game. He is much more active locally and runs events and such and that is what gets him excited. He also shares his love through his pewter and has been donating award medallions and personal token to the crown since he really got the hang out how to make his stuff look good.

I have to say that I don't feel like we're all that neglected. What I feel more is that we're kind of second class citizens in the fighting community because we have only one royal peer and a few active knights.

It's easier for me to be heard now, but even before I was elevated, I would appeal directly to the crown if I felt someone was deserving and had been looked over. The crown -begs- for award recommendations. As many times as I've heard people complain about not getting awards and such, when I ask them when the last time they wrote a rec for someone I get crickets. People get awards because the people who see what they do everyday write them in. There is no mystery to the process. The Crown is two people and they just can't be everywhere. Folks need to take some responsibility for that. Now if you've written and nothing's happened, you still have the responsibility to follow up. Have you updated the events on the rec page? Have you appealed to the local B&B or peer to add some weight to a rec?

I'm in a couple of households and they're all oriented towards kingdom service, so I've never had to choose loyalties. I am a royalist pure and simple. That is one of the main reasons I play (along with the pretty clothes). I serve my Crown to the best of my abilities, even if I don't like the person who is wearing the coronet at the time.

I am looking forward to the Chicago area having ceremonial respresentation. I think it will provide more opportunities for us to shine and help ourselves as well as the kingdom. I hope that it helps some of those people who feel left out for whatever reason have a connection to the crown.

I may not be the best person to ask since I actually like recreating a monarchy. I am always surprised when I hear people who play in the SCA but get mad that there's a king...

[mistressarafina.livejournal.com]

I forgot to address the last part...

Which brings up another question - Is it the responsibility of the Crown and Kingdom to make a concerted effort to look for signs of "marginalization" and attempt to correct it? The responsibility of those who feel marginalized to FIND ways to be part of the Kingdom? Or just a sign that things have changed and it might be time to re-evaluate the entire relationship?

I think the responsibility in an ideal world would be shared. However, having been around multiple reign by now, I can tell you that there is hardly time to breathe and so unless an issue is pressing (and probably past the point where it should've been looked at) many times I don't know that everything is really brought to the attention of the crown. I think there is a bit of a Wizard of Oz situation where people think that the Crown has all this power and is all seeing and all knowing, when in fact, they are two people trying to balance the demands of their everyday lives with the full-time responsibility of ruling.

It's easy to say that the Crown doesn't care because the Crown is them, The Man, but it takes work to look at how a bad situation can be fixed and how a good situation can be made great. In the case of Northshield (the only kingdom I've been around for the breaking off of), I could tell from the very beginning when I started playing that they were different. They were still very much Middle Kingdom, but the difference in culture was striking. It seemed natural to me that they would break off to become their own group. I mostly think that people are afraid of change and so anything that causes change is therefore bad.

Should the administration do pulse checks to see how the weather is? Yes. Should those feeling left out make an effort to reach out? Yes. For whatever reason, in these kind of situations people seem to look for reasons to be negative rather than positive and then the power struggle ensues.

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

Though, by the time you joined, Northshield was 10 years or more along the path already - if you consider it from when they started having meetings and conducting straw polls. That's plenty of time to develop a unique personality, well after the fact of official recognition of them as an entity.

I get your argument, and I do understand the time constraints. But let me see if I get the jist of what you're saying about the rest:

To whit: Presuming the problem I think exists does in fact exist (and I'm willing to concede that maybe I'm the only one who considers it a problem), it will pretty much not get dealt with until it has bubbled over past the point that it CAN be dealt with, and a true sentiment toward separation has developed.

I will note that the last time I objected, and tried to point out the problem as I saw it, I was basically told to sit down, shut up, and quit rocking the boat. I've kind of hit my limit on things that will elicit that response.

So, in a nutshell - If TRMs don't have time to take notice to potentially developing minor issues and no one listens to a single voice pointing to a possible potential issue, in what way can a positive outcome be anticiapted? The development of Calontir, Ealodmere, and Northshield comes into crystalline focus when viewed in that regard.

[mistressarafina.livejournal.com]

I'm saying that it takes two to tango. Responsibility lies on both sides. If you choose, it's your job to point out a problem (as long you at least offer one solution) to the "powers that be." I just don't want you to think that breaking off solves all the problems of being ignored. Someone will always feel left out because that just seems to be the nature of groups like this. You can only make some of the people happy some of the time, striving for most on both counts.

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

Indeed it does, and the other side isn't interested.

I DID say - please reinstate the rotation. I even suggested the system wherein interested groups volunteer and a schedule is generated. That way, everybody KNOWS when their turn is. You have to have a bid in 10 months prior or it opens up to anybody else and you get dropped from the rotation. Trading dates with other groups is allowed.

Nobody was interested.

I also suggested separating Kingdom A&S from Crown Tourney, so at least THAT could move around.

Again, with the crickets.

Nobody has had the slightest interest in rotating 12th Night or Rose Tourney in any form, either.

So, what now?

Am I obligated to continue offering suggestions until they find one they like? Do I have to say it again and again to each new collected Crown and Curia for a specified period of time?

Where does MY obligation leave off and theirs begin?

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

Or, perhaps it's more accurate to say that the response that I and others have gotten is basically, "Well, the way it is now works better for everybody else, so we're not going to change it."

I don't see any attempt there at negotiation, either.

You've said yourself that anything short of a major crisis is unlikely to be acted upon, anyway.

So then, why should we not work to make ourselves happy?